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REV 2.4 - Mon Aug 16 11:35:28 2010

Art Applewhite
Delta Flying Saucer 29mm (7.5")
P.O.Box 294064
Kerrville, TX 78028
 
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SPECS: 3.25" x 7.5" - 1.2 oz
ROCKSIM FILE: MISSING - please submit here
SpaceCAD FILE: MISSING - please submit here
REC'D MOTORS: Ellis Mountain G35, All Aerotech 29mm Single Use and RMS 29/40-120 reloads

Rating
(Contributed - by Lance Alligood [Who's Who Page] - 08/01/03)

Picture courtesy of Art Applewhite    Rocket Pic

Brief:
Have your club launches become rather routine? Are you looking for something to get everyone's attention when it's on the ground as much as in the air? Are you looking for something that's easy to recover? What if I told you it was inexpensive too? Art Applewhite's 29mm x 7.5" Delta Flying Saucer is all that & then some!

Construction:
I chose the Mirror Gold finish (as was recommended in the 18mm/6" saucer review). Inside a clear heat sealed bag was the instructions on a couple of 8.5x11 sheets of paper, 2 pieces of Mirror Gold card stock, one piece of white foamboard (to provide horizontal structural rigidity), & one piece of 29mm x 3.25" tubing for the MMT. The only difference between this saucer & its smaller siblings is that there is no thrust ring (to allow for different length motors to be used).

Only tools needed are an X-Acto knife and/or sharp scissors, white glue, & sandpaper (medium grit). Optional are epoxy (Art's instructions say you only need epoxy if you plan to fly it on a G80) & clear coat spray paint (which isn't recommended/needed for the Mirror Gold finish).

The only gotcha I ran into that wasn't in the instructions is that the MMT tube is a little snug when first inserting a motor into it. To prevent any creasing or peeling of the tube, a brief sanding with some 220 grit paper on the inside of both ends of the MMT tube to round the lip & it was much easier getting the motors in.

My experience constructing the saucer was virtually identical to the previous saucer reviews...just the parts are bigger.

I didn't plan on launching mine on a G80 since I wanted to use a motor that had a longer burning & more smoky exhaust. That allowed me to assemble the saucer entirely with white glue. Art's directions (with photos) walk you through precisely as to what should be done. Once assembled it is surprisingly rigid. Test drops from 8ft with an empty G40 motor casing onto a carpeted floor show that the aerobrake recovery is indeed enough for it to land safely with no damage.

PROs:

  • Can be built in a single evening.
  • The instructions are practically bulletproof since it included photos as well as written instructions.

CONs:

  • Absolutely nothing.

Finishing:
There aren't any decals included & again, with the Mirror Gold finish, you don't have to spray it with a clear coat (which is only suggested to protect the saucer from the elements). I enjoyed the clean lines of the saucer & didn't add any (additional) decorations/stickers to it. Fingerprints show up easily on the Mirror Gold but are wiped off with a soft (dry) cloth.

PROs:

  • No painting required.

CONs:

  • None.

Construction Rating: 5 out of 5

Flight:
Any 29mm motor up to a G80 (either single use or RMS) is recommended for this saucer & ejection delays are not necessary (or need to worry much about them anyway). I would only suggest a shorter delay than a longer one so that it has a chance to pop in midair instead of after touching down back on the ground.

The smaller saucer reviews encourage use of the biggest motor you can fit. I don't disagree with that either. However I wanted motors that gave off lots of smoke & have a long burn time. I used (& would mightily recommend) the Aerotech Econojet G35-7W (or G35-4W). A little masking tape around the aft end of the motor & it snuggly slid into place with about 1/4" of motor peeking out the top of the saucer (a G40 or G80 would stick out about an inch further than that), which isn't a bad idea for those who might be skeptical about the aerobrake recovery method potentially damaging their saucer on impact with the ground.

I did get strange looks when carrying out such a small rocket to the 100' pads. The snickers turned to intrigue when the LCO announced that it was going up on a G35 though! Unfortunately, I had a problem with the first ignitor & had to use the other one that came in the 2-pack of motors. The saucer left the pad surprisingly fast but quickly slowed at the end of motor burnout. A dense column of white smoke showed it's upward path while a noticeably less but still visible trail of smoke on its downward plight leaving a sweet arch lingering in the sky. The ejection charge popped about 50ft before impact. I'm guessing it went in the ballpark of about 500ft before turning over (exactly as advertised I might add) & gently falling back to the ground a mere 25ft from the launch pad. Everyone loved the launch & the LCO's eyes lit up when I said, "I've got another motor...but I would need another ignitor..." The LCO had the perfect response: "Don't worry, we are going to get you another one!"

The second flight was even better than the first. It was the other motor in the 2-pack yet seemed to go slightly higher. I think that it was due to a little gust of wind right after launch, cocking the saucer's flight slightly. Also there was a greater effect of seeing the saucer fight the effects of air resistance. It landed within 40 ft of the pad that time. The crowd & I definitely enjoyed both flights. Something tells me that there is going to be a saucer invasion at our next launch!

Recovery:
I never feared that recovery would be a problem. If anything, it's just making sure that the ejection delay is short enough to go off while the saucer is still in the air (to reduce any chance of harming the ground and/or saucer). In my experience the smaller saucers tend to go into a tumble after the ejection charge but the 7.5" saucer still keeps its nose pointed downward position. After 2 launches the saucer did have a fair amount of smoke/exhaust residue however it easily wiped away with a damp cloth.

Flight Rating: 5 out of 5

Summary:
To watch a motor with that much thrust (& smoke) push such a light object yet bring it back so close to the pad, it was a sight to behold. If ever you needed a small field rocket that uses a G, this is your golden (no pun intended) ticket. Yes, you can use an F instead...BUT WHY? Give this saucer everything you can fit in it.

That it was only $10 makes it affordable to the masses.

I am extremely pleased with the results of this saucer from the moment that it arrived at my door. Art offers still a larger delta saucer that uses a 38mm MMT. He advertises it as a way to get your Level 1. That almost seems like cheating to get your Level 1 (it would be so incredibly easy to do!)...but the thought of a saucer going up on a 2G Pro38 motor sure sounds like it would be a blast to watch!

Overall Rating: 5 out of 5

[Submit your Opinion]

GUEST's OPINION:
08/03 - "This rocket (saucer) is very versatile! Its small size (when compared with the 29mm regular saucer) allows it to be flown on a motor as small as the D12 with an adapter (which I've done). Build is quite easy for the most part. Flies well on a F20 Econojet (which I've done also)" (B.B.)

[Enter Rocket Specific Tip]

SPECIFIC ROCKET TIP:
08/04 - "This is a launch update. All I can say is OH my God, this saucer screamed off pad to above 900 feet or better, no way to tell, so much power and such a great flight, I have a flame covered saucer and I think some of the flames fell off(hahahahaha), I'm still amazed, the motor casing was sticking out the top by 8 inches, recover about 500 feet from pad in perfect shape, don't have any big 29mm motor to try. Can’t believe this thing, the foaming of this rocket really worked great and suggest to all to foam it a make it indestructible and lightweight. Time to buy a 38mm version." (D.L.B. )

SPECIFIC ROCKET TIP:
05/04 - "Just have to Launch a Bigger Motor in it?????? Then like they said in there instructions, use Epoxy to coat the inside of the cones. Use fast 5 min. epoxy, not the slower stuff, if you do the Epoxy bleeds thru the paper, this is good unless you have a printing on it ( like the flames or any wording ) then it tends to mess up the printing. Just after assembling the upper cone area, and before attaching the bottom cone. Drill two holes in the foam board thru to the upper section on opposite sides of the motor tube, but that will be hidden by the lower cone when attached (about 1/2" size)and mix up some two part foam and pour it in the holes and move it around some, so to evenly expand. When hard, trim off the extra foam then add the lower cone, and Clear coat the whole thing. this makes it as hard as a rock, but still light weight, this will help a lot for using heavier motors, like H180's, I did this and found that the recovery is more like a tumble type( due to the extra weight ) instead of fiction recovery. Talk about a great flight, this thing ROCKS on an H97J. So far I got 9 flights on it, and all were great sites to behold, with no damage at all, it even landed in water filled ditch once ( clear coat helped here ). I getting ready to launch it on a Loki 460ns EX motor ( Big "I" ), it will take it!!! Enjoy" (D.L.B. )

[Enter Flight Log]
Date Name Motor Ejection/
Altitude
Wind Notes
07-19-2003 Lance Alligood AT EconoJet G35-7 None - Tumble 0-5 mph winds - Even better the 2nd time! Wind gust pushed it around in flight & seemed to give it a little altitude boost. Landed within 40 ft of pad.
07-19-2003 Lance Alligood AT EconoJet G35-7 None - Tumble 0-5 mph winds - Zipped off the pad with tons of white smoke but slowed quickly after thrust to ~500ft. Flipped over & returned 25ft from pad.
08-16-2003 Lance Alligood AT EconoJet G35-4 None - Tumble 5-10 mph winds - Best flight to date. IMO it flies better on slightly windy days than calm days. At least 600ft up. Because of the wind it surprisingly drifted 100ft from the pad.
01-17-2004 Lance Alligood AT EconoJet G35-4 None - CATO 10+ mph winds RIP - Rocket never even moved on the pad. Motor CATO'd, blowing the nozzle at ignition & shattering the case. Ripped out the entire side of MMT tube. Time to contact AeroTech! Status: CATO'd
05-18-2006 Neal Baker Est SU D12-5 Apogee - NC Up 0-5 mph winds Event: Jim Bridger Elem. Demo
- The rocket didn't seem to come down normally. Seemed to come down like a wheel.
06-12-2004 Donald Ball AT RMS G64-10 None - Tumble 0-5 mph winds - straight up, about 500 feet, Tumbled back down, great flight, time to try a bigger motor.
06-12-2004 Donald Ball AT RMS H97-0 None - Tumble 0-5 mph winds - WOW, great Flight, straight up again, above 600 feet, tumbled back in to a ditch full of water, glad I clear coated it, no damage, only smoke tracks on bottom side, the foaming of this saucer helped alot!
06-26-2004 Donald Ball AT RMS H180-0 None - Tumble Calm - Oh my, left the pad so fast, I missed most of it, at least 700 feet, tumbled back to a great landing about 50 feet off pad, now ready to try a Bigger motor. I love this thing, Thanks Art!
06-26-2004 Donald Ball AT RMS H180-0 None - Tumble Calm - Oh my, left the pad so fast, I missed most of it, at least 700 feet, tumbled back to a great landing about 50 feet off pad, now ready to try a Bigger motor. I love this thing, Thanks Art!
07-04-2004 Donald Ball Loki I400-460ns-blue formula None - Tumble Calm - OH my God, screamed off pad to above 900 feet, so much power and great flight,I'm still amazed, the motor casing was sticking out the top by 8 inches, recovered great, don't have any big 29mm motor to try. can beleive this thing.
04-07-2006 Donald Besaw AT SU G40-0 None - Tumble 5-10 mph winds - Excellent flirst flight, very loud, smokey, and fiery boost. Reached maybe 400 feet. Tumbled down and landed in the parking lot. Nothing major.
05-14-2006 Donald Besaw AT RMS G75-0 None - Tumble 5-10 mph winds - Wow!!! This thing loves big motors. Excellent loud and smokey flight to maybe 500 feet and tumbled down and landed close by. I did notice that the bottom was coated in thick, sooty residue from the Blackjack propellant. No damage.
06-17-2006 Donald Besaw AT RMS H128-0 None - Tumble 5-10 mph winds - Most excellent flight, just smoked off the pad, ripped up to maybe 500 feet in a big hurry and was certainly the biggest laugh generator of the day. Came down close by and landed with no damage.
06-24-2006 Donald Besaw AT RMS G33-0 None - Tumble 0-5 mph winds - Excellent flight, loud, long, and smokey. Recovered close to pad and was once again coated in thick sooty residue from the Blackjack propellant. No damage.
08-19-2006 Donald Besaw AT EconoJet F23-0 None - Tumble 0-5 mph winds - Great flight, reached maybe 300 feet, pretty impressive for an F motor. Actually aerobraked in reverse, landing nozzle end first. No damage.
08-19-2006 Donald Besaw AT RMS F39-6 Just Past (1-2sec) 0-5 mph winds - Great flight on the F39 with 24mm adaptor. No damage.
08-19-2006 Donald Besaw Ellis SU G35-0 None - Tumble 0-5 mph winds - My saucer really got a workout today, I was given this motor and was told to burn it!!! This is a most excellent saucer motor, great long flight to maybe 500 feet and was a real crowd pleaser. No damage.
07-17-2003 Bill Bill AT EconoJet F20-7 None - Unknown 0-5 mph winds Gold - Very cool flight! The F20 (ejection charge removed) was VERY loud. Nice smoke trailing the rocket down. Landed 50 feet from pad.
07-31-2003 Bill Bill Est SU D12-3 None - Unknown Calm Gold - Gold-Night launch-Adapter used. This rocket makes for a perfect D12 backyard rocket. Landed 30 feet from pad. D12 flames are very impressive at night.
08-07-2003 Bill Bill Est SU D12-3 None - Tumble 5-10 mph winds - Don't angle the launch rod! Mine landed 100 feet from pad(after bouncing off roof.) By the way, my flight in the 7.5in 24mm regular saucer is supposed to be here, not there. I just made a mistake.
04-27-2008 Dave Bishop Congreve RMS G60 None - Tumble 5-10 mph winds - Beautiful long flame & white smoke trail. 100% stable on the way up & the way down, recovered 10ft from pad
04-27-2008 Dave Bishop Congreve RMS H60 None - Tumble 0-5 mph winds - Most thought this was the flight of the day - loads of noise & sparks. Great altitude & perfect recovery.
27-04-2008 Dave Bishop Congreve RMS F35 None - Tumble 5-10 mph winds Event: Redwick - UK
- Nice firts flight
05-13-2006 Henry Coates AT EconoJet F20-7 Very Late 5-10 mph winds - Neat flight, 500 feet or so. Fast off the pad, very stable. Landed 20 yards from the pad.
05-13-2006 Henry Coates AT EconoJet F42-7 Very Late 5-10 mph winds - More of the same. Very stable. Nice trail. Wind seemed have no effect.
09-28-2003 Rocky Firth AT RMS G64-0 None - Tumble Calm - First flight and what a kick. Picture was just smoke, it was gone faster than my finger could track.
03-28-2004 Rocky Firth AT RMS E23-0 None - Tumble 5-10 mph winds - These saucers are a real kick to fly.
05-22-2010 Ken Jarosch AT RMS G79-S None - Tumble 0-5 mph winds Event: May Launch
- -Smiley After many years this was the first HPR style motor in the rocket. Very fast takeoff with a lot of flame and smoke. Great altitude with AeroBrake recovery.
07-24-2010 Ken Jarosch AT RMS G75-0 None - Tumble 10+ mph winds Event: MASA Launch
- Smiley: First 29/180 motor. Great ascent with that heavy black smoke. However, tumbled on recovery and not the usual AeroBrake. Expected better recovery with longer case. No Damage
04-14-2007 Stephen Kiss Ellis SU H50-10 None - Tumble 0-5 mph winds - Great flight for a paper rocket on an H motor. Long burn was great in this rocket.
03-19-2005 Ritchie Sollis AT SU G40-7 Didn't See 10+ mph winds Event: Thor
- It went much higher than i thought,the high winds pushed it about 300ft from pad
03-19-2005 Ritchie Sollis AT SU G40-7 Didn't See 10+ mph winds Event: Thor
- It went much higher than i thought,the high winds pushed it about 300ft from pad
05-21-2005 Ritchie Sollis Apo SU F10-4 Didn't Record 10+ mph winds Event: THOR
- Because the motor did not have enough power to keep the saucer aloft, the saucer made a long arc, and caused a fire upon landing. I would not recommend this motor for use in saucers.
07-16-2005 Ritchie Sollis Ellis SU G35-6 Apogee - Perfect 0-5 mph winds Event: Thor
- yes,this is the motor for this saucer. It went even higher than the G-40 flight. at least 600+ feet up,every one at thor was very impresed
   

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